What do people want from the guild?

[Splishy]

This is a follow up to the thread (Kara Weekends) and I figured the logical place to continue the discussion so that thread can get back on-topic.

The long and short of it is that we currently have a number of people that want a number of different things from both the guild and the game. I'm finding it harder and harder to hold everything together and as such am considering asking for people to put themselves forward as candidates to take over the guild leadership. If nobody wants to take it on, or if the guild would prefer me to stay in charge I will continue, however if there is a  person better suited to the running of the guild I'd ask that they take the stand now.

Also please have a read of the last few pages of the thread - there are a lot of points that need to be addressed and I'd like to see opinions.

[Mordwin]

I still need to get round to doing enough of the 5-mans to get the rest of my heroic keys at least... (1/2 a SV, about 3 SH and a bit over 2 SL). Then maybe I can think about doing heroics...

I'm sure there will be a bit more 5-manning as other members (and alts) work their way up, but I can't say I blame Daf for not wanting to do them anymore... he's way ahead of most of us on the rep front for a reason

Hopefully having other guilds we associate with will make getting groups for things (quests, 5-mans, heroics etc) a bit easier aswell as helping with Kara (and Zul'Aman too when it arrives...)

[Amberley]

I think I fit into the second with potential for core (delete as appropriate)

I am prepared to commit: (Outline what you feel you can and will give with regards to time, timekeeping, schedule and so on. Be realistic and honest, with yourself not just the group)
I would say I'm available most evenings and weekends although this depends on real life also.  Work/Friends etc.  I'd love to be running 2/3 instances a week (normal or heroics)

I expect in return: preferably commitment from people who do sign up for things (baring exceptional circumstants(RL)) co operation and for those in the last group just the friendship they always offer:)

My realistic expectation of what I hope to achieve: (where do you want to get to?) I want to see as much as possible whilst I can.  I don't want to skip things such as heroics and just run through all the raids.

Am I having fun in the guild?: (Be brutally honest, explain why you are not having fun. Conversely explain why you are enjoying yourself)[/b]
I love being in this guild, there are a large number of people who I now count as friends both in game and in real life.  I hate to see people getting angry with each other because they aren't happy.  I feel that if someone wants more from the game then they have to decide if they will remain with the guild and be happy as is or move on to more of what they want etc.  

Just how I feel, I am in two different guilds, both i like for different reasons although Seeds os my home and always will be I hope.

As for Splishy's request - I am more than happy to have him remain as guild leader as I think he does a good job.  This has nothing to do with my relationship with him as I know how much time he has to dedicate to it.

[lioness]

Now for me, I would say if you're a 'core' person and not enjoying yourself or not getting what you want/need then the answer is obvious. Take your main and go RAID with a guild made for it, leave your alts in the guild and be with the people you've become close with when your raid schedule allows.

Hmm?

What Rox stated here, is thruthfully the point. For everyone themselves you have to make up your mind. There are a lot of raiding guilds having problems to find adequate and good players to progress in a raiding environment. Don't underestimate it though, they will apply rules and you will obey or be kicked out after your 'trial' period is over.

For what raiding regards you will look like this :
- at least have 2-3 days a week time to attend raiding (and that's even very low) mostly the hours of raiding are 20:00 - 00:00 (the more hardcore, the longer and frequently you are obliged to attend)
- follow orders without asking questions nor give pointers, just stfu and do as your told is the bottom line
- loot distribution will be stricked and if you're lucky, they have a fair policy, but most don't
- if you don't raid, you'll be grinding your but off to pay up for repairs, pots and preperation, and no, daily quests won't make up the expenses..
For my own experience the last straws of my raiding days was that it felt like 'work', and i do have RL work already, so i won't let any game give me more work then i would have in RL

All by all, every guild has a 'crisis', and this seems the first real 'crisis' SoG is going in at the moment.
However this guild is mature enough to work things out, the most important question is : are you happy and having a good time when you play? If the answer to this is 'no', then you need to find for yourself out if there is a solution to make your playtime more enjoyable, and if not maybe it's time to give the game a break.

[Splishy]

Moved Mordwin and Lioness' posts to this thread.

[Daffyd]

Personally I want the to continue doing Kara twice a month and add in the occasional pop at Gruul or Maggy.

This next but is slightly hypocritical but so be it.  The lack of non-raid content being done is unhealthy for the guild, there's nothing to build guild spirit.  Anyone who wasn't with us at 60 and before has nothing to make them really part of the guild (and Kara twice a month isn't enough for that).  It's hypocritical because I refuse to get involved in 5 mans beyond occasionally filling a spot but I think I can honestly say I've served my time on that one.

Look at the big guilds and you'll see they do things differently and it's for a reason.  They have alt nights (everyone keeps saying how much they want to join those we have going), they have 5 man nights, they have heroic nights, they have raid nights, they have free nights, they organise stuff together and use teamspeak all the time not just as a tool and we don't (this is not a criticism of you, every one of us is guilty there).  Things are different when levelling/questing but now we have a fair amount at 70 we end up where we were at 60 but without the carrot of TBC round the corner.  

The counter argument (and part of the problem) is that whenever we organise anything it's the same faces every time, the ones who post on and read the forums.

As for holding everything together, I don't know if it can be done but I am sure only one person in the guild can pull it off and it's you.

[Choleric]

I think I fit into the second layer
I am prepared to commit: 2 days/evenings for instances per week, the rest of my time will be divided between RL and levelling alts.

I expect in return: Organised runs with people who are willing to be on time, prepared, listen to the raid/instance leader and most of all have fun (it's supposed to be a game)

My realistic expectation of what I hope to achieve: Obtain Kara loot, play some heroics and try my hand at Gruul/Mag if the occasion arises.

Am I having fun in the guild?: Yes.  I have no intention of leaving the guild at all unless Splishy left as leader and it took on an entirely different guise.  Despite the differences expressed in the recent thread I think that it ultimately comes down to the guild members to make things happen, Splishy is not responsible for making things happen all the time, there are enough capable people to organise things when he is busy.  The laid back yet steady progress that we have maintained since I have been with the guild has always suited me just fine, I will continue to follow the guild into new places but I am not going to make the game a chore by commiting to any more raiding than perhaps every fortnight like we are doing now.

p.s: It might be worth putting something in MoTD about this thread so the new members can share their thoughts.

[Splishy]

This next but is slightly hypocritical but so be it.  The lack of non-raid content being done is unhealthy for the guild, there's nothing to build guild spirit.

In your humble opinion. There have already been posts by people who still want to run the 5 mans. Hardly anyone has touched heroics.

Anyone who wasn't with us at 60 and before has nothing to make them really part of the guild (and Kara twice a month isn't enough for that).

I can honestly say I can't see where you're coming from there. We have a number of members who haven't hit 60 yet, and I see them as just as important as the people who have been with us since level 1.

It's hypocritical because I refuse to get involved in 5 mans beyond occasionally filling a spot but I think I can honestly say I've served my time on that one.

You played at your pace which involved PUGging a lot and hitting all the instances faster and more often than anyone else in the guild. I said this would happen... but that's fine - play the game at your own pace, all I ask is that you don't take it out on others when they're not able to match you.

Look at the big guilds and you'll see they do things differently and it's for a reason.  They have alt nights (everyone keeps saying how much they want to join those we have going), they have 5 man nights, they have heroic nights, they have raid nights, they have free nights, they organise stuff together and use teamspeak all the time not just as a tool and we don't (this is not a criticism of you, every one of us is guilty there).  Things are different when levelling/questing but now we have a fair amount at 70 we end up where we were at 60 but without the carrot of TBC round the corner.

I think you can safely substitute "big" for "raiding" guilds there. We still have a number of people in limbo who just aren't geared up for hitting Kara, Gruul and Magtheridon. They need to run those 5-mans in order to get the upgrades - again, people play at their own pace. I think this is where I'm going to end up concentrating my efforts - helping people gear and rep up for the next step. As for the carrot of TBC? I was at level 60 for a number of months before TBC was even announced and I was playing and enjoying the game fine.  

The counter argument (and part of the problem) is that whenever we organise anything it's the same faces every time, the ones who post on and read the forums.

As for holding everything together, I don't know if it can be done but I am sure only one person in the guild can pull it off and it's you.

Thanks, we'll see where we end up...

[Mordwin]

Thanks, saw your post after I'd pressed Add Reply

As to the rest, when you have a guild as varied as this one in a game which is  fairly linear in it's progression, then we're going to have a spread of things people want to/are prepared to do.

Alliances are a good way to manage this sort of thing for smaller guilds, and though we're fairly informal about it at the moment if it seems to be working we may want to look at setting up an alliance forum/planner too to better organise things.

I'm usually only around seriously weekend afternoons, with occasional mid-week sessions (this is a second MMO for me), and I'm just looking for a friendly bunch I can occasionally do stuff with, though I'll PUG if I have to I guess.

I'm not seriously expecting we'll be doing 25-mans a lot, even with other guilds... we're still struggling with Kara after all, but if we can ever organise numbers, it might be fun to at least have a look. But I'm not expecting much beyond that, I'm a small group person at the end of the day, and I hope we see even more 10-mans down the line as that's the scale of things that suits me best.

[Splishy]

What's your main MMO if you don't mind me asking Mordwin?

[Amberley]

I do understand where Daff is coming from regarding the level 60 games I think.

We did a lot more as a guild before TBC came out, then it became about leveling which I was also guilty off:)  I myself time and again have offered and will continue to offer my services to lower level characters

[lanto]

I feel like me and Chol are at the same page so i "borrowed" some of his comments.

I think I fit into the second layer
I am prepared to commit: 2 days/evenings for instances per week, the rest of my time will be divided between RL and levelling alts.

I expect in return: Organised runs with people who are willing to be on time, prepared, listen to the raid/instance leader and most of all have fun (it's supposed to be a game)

My realistic expectation of what I hope to achieve: Obtain Kara loot, play some heroics and try my hand at Gruul/Mag if the occasion arises.

Atm im leveling alts but dont mind helping out in 5-man instances, i still havn't done any heroics as i dont have the keys. And thats probably as high as i can get, unless we can do raids in weeknights. As i said in earlier posts, i dont like to "book" up a weekend a week ahead. It's easier on weekdays for me. I've been at kara with you, but always as an backup and because i happended to be online. Even got a nice little purple drop but never downed a boss.

Forgot to say that i think you're doing a great job Splishy!

[Daffyd]

In your humble opinion. There have already been posts by people who still want to run the 5 mans. Hardly anyone has touched heroics.

You misunderstand me, I don't think we do anything like enough of them.  That's why I said it was hypocritical of me, that we don't do enough is a major failing but I don't want anything to do with them.

I can honestly say I can't see where you're coming from there. We have a number of members who haven't hit 60 yet, and I see them as just as important as the people who have been with us since level 1.

So do I, but what do we do to make them part of the guild and include them?

You played at your pace which involved PUGging a lot and hitting all the instances faster and more often than anyone else in the guild. I said this would happen... but that's fine - play the game at your own pace, all I ask is that you don't take it out on others when they're not able to match you.

Again you misunderstood me.  I said I was being hypocritical by not wanting to do them, not you or anyone else.

I think you can safely substitute "big" for "raiding" guilds there. We still have a number of people in limbo who just aren't geared up for hitting Kara, Gruul and Magtheridon. They need to run those 5-mans in order to get the upgrades - again, people play at their own pace.

No, I explicitly meant big guilds not raiding guilds.  Raiding guilds raid, if you're not level 70 and already geared they generally aren't interested in you.  All the other stuff is the kind of things big guilds do, call it teambuilding if you will.  Getting people to play together as a guild.

I think this is where I'm going to end up concentrating my efforts - helping people gear and rep up for the next step.

And those who don't want to take the next step?  The altoholics?  The one night a weekers?  If we're going to address things let's address everything, that last sentence was more like one I might come out with than one from you.

Thanks, we'll see where we end up...

At the moment I'm considering whether it might not be best if I just quit the guild and/or game, I seem to be causing far too much friction with my opinions.

[Aimlin]

Don't need a grid, I play sporadically but often enough people know who I am.  I did not join a raiding guild because I did not want to raid, I joined SoG for friends, allies and humour.  When/if this guld ever becomes raid oriented then I will sadly step away from the guild.  When I am told I can not go to a instance because I never went two nights ago I'll quietly guild quit.

I expect nothing from this guild that I will not myself put into it.  I continue to put forward guild runs that I/others may need.  But I'll tell you when I am ready to move forward I'll remember those that helped in runs and those that waited till I caught up to them.  Help those that help me is a great motto I have.

As far as GuildLeader is concerned, Splish you do the most for this guild, takes quite a person to hold himself back from what he wants to help the others.  My only problem is the feeling that some of the lower levels are being left behind sadly, not meaning alts but mains as well.  

All in all this is a great guild, we accomplish alot.  I will continue to post runs when I have the time, and join up to others when I Feel like it.  My wife and kids come foremost in life and will continue to, and this will not change so if I am Made to raid more to go to Khara then I will hit the door


2 cents

[Mordwin]

What's your main MMO if you don't mind me asking Mordwin?

I've been playing Anarchy Online for over 5 years now, mostly on the test server there (which is a permanent server unlike WoW's). A rather smaller game of course, and not nearly as polished as WoW as a result, but it was my first MMO and it's still got something, even if it's not as shiny as it once was for me

I'm always amazed at what Funcom manage to do with fairly limited funds and a developer team that probably wouldn't even be enough people to make the WoW devs tea... and an engine that's in excess of 6 years old (the game was 6 last month, the engine's likely nearer 8 now, though they do keep tweaking and we're due a major update in the next year).

I did once hear a rumour that Blizzard decided to make WoW after playing AO... no idea of the truth of it

[Splishy]

At the moment I'm considering whether it might not be best if I just quit the guild and/or game, I seem to be causing far too much friction with my opinions.

I'll be honest - after the day I've just had I'm starting to feel the same (regards myself, not you)

[Amberley]

I don't think people should leave a game just because of opinion, if you still like and want to play the game don't let what you believe stop you - I know for a fact your not that kind of person:)

As for the guild if you feel you want more out of the game than this guild can offer you then it is something you have to decide on.  Your always welcome opinions and all.

Same for Splishy, having had a shiz day at work and the forum as well seems to have come to a head unfortunatly.

Also regarding leaving lower levels behind from an earlier comment made.  A number of people have repeatedly offered their services to anyone in the guild.  Those people being left behind are the ones who never ever look or participate on the forum.  WHat more can anyone do?

[rox0r]

Do NOT let shortcomings of the game or the mechanics and logistics of orchestrating its 'zenith' come between friendships.

I have said it before and I will continue to rant it till they chisel it on my slab.....it is a game, nothing more and not even a brilliant one at that. If you're not having fun, feck it find something else that pleases you but don't ever let it chip away at social relationships. Friends are made in MMO's but only a fool loses those friends because of MMOs.

This guild has been at this rocky point a good few times that I can remember. It boils down to this; either the ship sails onto new adventures, or it goes into dock. If you want to make it work then work as a team to get the ship where the captain points it. You all make the guild what it is and you all have the power to make it fun for everyone.

[Amberley]

Well said and I fully agree:)

I would like to hear/see more responses to Roxor's template, since just more out of curiosity i'm interested to know what people are looking for:)

[Choleric]

This guild has been at this rocky point a good few times that I can remember. It boils down to this; either the ship sails onto new adventures, or it goes into dock. If you want to make it work then work as a team to get the ship where the captain points it. You all make the guild what it is and you all have the power to make it fun for everyone.

Agreed.  This has been a rough debate and it's one we've had before.  Once it's cooled down I think we'll all come to realise we have fun as a guild.  Even if we aren't all moving in the same direction every day most of us are steadily moving towards the same goal, some of us just get there a little quicker which will cause doubt and frustration.  But remember the things and people that make this guild great (as it's been said, the guild is better than the game itself at times and is the main reason people return) and these issues will resolve themselves over time.  It's easy to get into a depression after such a topic, but the things we are talking about will be dealt with in weeks to come, not in a few hours on a forum.  Keep smiling